Eliyahu http://www.jta.org/user/profile/8691 en-us zsilberman@washingtonjewishweek.com Copyright 2012 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 How perspicacious of Makovsky!! But the problem is that he apparently accepts the imposition on Israel of conditions that represent racism against Jews, an apartheid system against Jews, denying Jews the right to build homes in parts of the ancient Jewish homeland recognized as parts of the Jewish National Home by repeated international acts, starting with San Remo in 1920, League of Nations, 1922, UN charter 1945, and not revoked by the partition plan recommendation of 11-29-1947. This apartheid policy --also promoted by the POTUS-- separates Jews from Jewish holy places over the 1949 Green Line armistice line, leaving them to Arab-Muslim abuse. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Ron, you have nicely illustrated the problems that Obama's "67 lines" formula brings for Israel. Now Obama and company are pressuring Israel to accept that hostile, unjust formula. I believe that Judea-Samaria belong to the Jewish people as our ancient heritage. But supposing that those areas were "occupied." Even in that case we can point international acceptance of the expanded post-1945 borders of Poland and the Soviet Union, which took vast territories from Germany. And nobody complained. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Yes, Penny, there are people enslaved and persecuted just about all over. But they don't interest Obama. When does he call for an end to Arab-caused genocide in Sudan? The protests and now uprising in Syria has been going on for more than a month. But Obama has not yet demanded that Assad get out, although he was demanding that Mubarak leave after only three days of protest. Obama's flunkeys also told the Egyptian powers that be that "non-secular forces" in Egypt should be allowed to take part in the govt there. He meant the rabidly fanatic, Judeophobic Muslim Brotherhood. He is not a friend of peace or justice. His administration's stand on Jews living throughout Jerusalem and in Judea-Samaria shows a certain racist position against Jews. Or should we call it an anti-Jewish apartheid position? In view of the above, I think that Ms Covington was interpreting Obama perfectly. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 JStreet displays once again their hypocritical hutspah. Dr Moskowitz donates to Ms Ros-Lehtinen's campaign. That they don't like. But JStreet takes money from Geo Soros and the Hong Kong millionairess. Soros is a very distasteful person. His biography and career are outrageous in several ways. Are we allowed to call Soros immoral? Or is he only amoral? Anyhow JStreet seems to like taking his ill gotten lucre. Next, Moskowitz bought the "Shepherd Hotel," originally built by the British-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini, who collaborated in the Holocaust. I consider it a mitsvah, a great moral statement to tear down a Husseini-built building and build Jewish housing on that site. Furthermore, I live in Jerusalem and have passed by that location many times. It is only about 100 yards from several Israeli govt ministries. It is not in the middle of an Arab neighborhood. It is near the former Hyatt Hotel, Hadassah Hospital on Mount Scopus and the Mt Scopus campus of Hebrew University. It is on the way to Mount Scopus. Arab irregular forces attacked Jews traveling on the road to the hospital and the university starting on November 30, 1947, after the UN General Assembly Partition recommendation of 11-29-1947. Jews living in the nearby Shimon haTsadiq Quarter were driven out of their homes in late December 1947 and early January 1948. Opposition to demolishing a Husseini building and replacing it with Jewish housing is racist anti-Jewish. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Israel is at least as democratic as the United States. Do you, David, think that you really control or influence American policy in any field, besides helping the State Dept by bad-mouthing Israel?? And if you object to Israel because of religious influences on policy and govt there, why don't you see influences of Protestant and Catholic churches in the USA, not to mention the way both the Bush 2 and Obama administrations have fawned over Muslim clerics in the USA who preach and act in openly anti-American ways? And then there are the Euro states where the democratic state is much involved with the dominant local religion, not to mention the Muslim states, that dominate UN bodies through the Organization of the Islamic Conference. The Obama administration fawns over them and their bigoted view of the world, especially Jews. What was Obama's Cairo speech, following his Ankara speech, but a fawning over Muslims for inflated achievements?? 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 It seems that neither Krugman nor Kampeas know about Muslim bigotry against Jews going back to Muhammad's time, nor do they know about the traditional Arab/Muslim persecution, oppression, humiliation and pecuniary exploitation of Jews going back to early Islam -- in fact back to Muhammad, according to Muslim sources. I modestly suggest my two articles linked to below, which may be helpful in this regard: http://hnn.us/articles/56698.html The following article was published in Midstream: http://www.think-israel.org/green.islamoppressedjews.html On the Ground Zero Mosque issue, Krugman ought to know that there are still people who deny the Jewish right to build homes, even in places where Jews lived before, and to restore Jewish holy places and synagogues, even in places where synagogues and Jewish holy places long existed. One of those denying people is Mr Barack Obama. If I am not mistaken, Paul Krugman supported Mr Obama's candidacy to be the POTUS. Now that he is the POTUS, Mr Obama denies the Jewish right, for instance, to go back and live in the Shimon haTsadiq Quarter of Jerusalem, whence Jews were driven out by Arab armed forces in December 1947. He also denies the Jewish right to go back and live in the Silwan neighborhood whence Jews were driven out in the mid-1930s, with British acquiescence, to be sure. Judea-Samaria was the heart of the ancient Jewish homeland. Its Jewish connection was recognized by the League of Nations in 1922. Hence, it was legally recognized as part of the Jewish National Home in international law. This status was not changed by the 11-29-1947 partition recommendation of the UN general assembly. Yet the POTUS refuses the Jewish right to live in Judea-Samaria. Even on real estate that has belonged to Jews for generations. How does that square with Professor Krugman's supposed opposition to bigotry?? 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 the fact is that walt himself and his partner mearsheimer did a great deal to create an anti-Jewish pogrom atmosphere in America. They used lies about Israel to do. They falsely blamed the "Israel Lobby" [= that is, the Jews and their friends] for the Bush administration's decision to go to war in Iraq. They knew that that was a lie since they have long been close to Washington decision-makers and have consulted for the State Dept. In fact, mearsheimer told NPR that after the decision to invade Iraq had been made, Israeli officials heard about it and tried to change it, urging the American govt to go after Iran instead of Iraq since Israel considered Iran the greater danger. But Bush and company kept their decision and the rest is history. So much for Israeli control of Washington policy. Kampeas is right to perceive insinuations of a pogrom threat in walt's words. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Ron, you and Dina Kraft are both wrong if you believe that "settlements" in Judea-Samaria are illegal. In fact, not only are those areas parts of the ancient Jewish homeland but they are parts of the Jewish National Home juridically erected by the international community in 1920 [San Remo] and 1922 [by the League of Nations] and never legally revoked. The mandatory power, the UK, was supposed to foster "close settlement" of Jews on the land according the League's mandate assignment. Moreover, some wrongly claim that Judea-Samaria are "occupied" and that settlement is forbidden in "occupied territories" by Geneva IV, article 49. However, not only is the areas not "occupied," but Geneva IV, art. 49, does not forbid people from moving into occupied territory of their own free will. What it does forbid is transfer of population, which means compulsory migration. Neither you, Ron, nor Dina Kraft, is an expert on international law and you should both stop accepting the conventional lies that I have detailed above. Providence's argument is asinine. Suppose my cousin were an agent for the CIA, or KGB or MI6. Would that make me an agent?? Or if my son were against the US war in Iraq and I, as a journalist, favored that war, would that mean that I agree with my pacifist son?? David above is even more asinine by claiming that "critics of Israel don’t get fair play in the media." It usually seems that on BBC and the US MSM, only critics of Israel get fair play. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Ron, how come you and everybody else who wants to minimize Bzzzzski's connection to Obama forget that Zbig went to Damascus in February 2008 --in the midst of the presidential election campaign-- on behalf of Candidate Obama?? 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Hilary is either lying or badly informed. She blamed the renaming of the main square of Ramallah [the city's name unmentioned by her] on the supposedly Hamas controlled Ramallah municipality. All the reports that I have seen say that the renaming ceremony was arranged by Abu Mazen's own Fatah party, not Hamas. Further, she did not mention that an American citizen was killed by that terrorist. She was Gail Rubin, a nature photographer. Nor did Clinton mention that Miss Rubin was the niece of US Senator Abraham Ribicoff. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 correction to previous comment: Kampeas did not actually mention AIPAC but the pro-Israel community. I should add that according to a report on YNET, recently Turkish police entered a synagogue in Istanbul during prayers and demanded that the congregants show ID. That is a sinister act, I believe. http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/2010/03/conditions-deteriorate-for-minorities.html 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 I read the full Rosenberg screed on this event. Rosenberg wants to have things both ways, he wants to be "realist" loyal to US policy whatever it may be at any given time, and he also wants to be "moral." There is a certain hypocrisy right there. Then, having read the quote from R Kampeas' previous article that Rosenberg quotes, I see that Ron Kampeas just reported that AIPAC was laying off the issue and not interfering. That is hardly the same as pushing it through. So Rosenberg may be having some trouble with reading comprehension. I suggest that he go back to Kampeas' article that he himself quotes and study it carefully to see if RK's article really supports what Rosenberg says. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Ron, you could simply have people listen to Walt's colleague, John Mearsheimer, who explained in Walt's presence that Israel was NOT involved in the decision-making on the war in Iraq. Mearsheimer, in a rare moment of integrity, affirmed in an NPR discussion with Tom Ashbrooke that Israel considered Iran more dangeroud than Iraq under Saddam Hussein and had suggested to Washington policymakers that it would be more advisable to go into Iran rather than Iraq, if they were going to go to war in any case. See links below. The audio link comes second: http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=35&x_article=1365 http://pointers.audiovideoweb.com/stcasx/ca25win25213/wm_ashbrook.wma/play.asx 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Ron and Yosef, for more on the Goldstone report, I recommend www.goldstonereport.org 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Ron, aren't you being unfair to Eli Yishai? Yishai is a fine genteleman compared with Haim Ramon. The latter reminds me of a two-legged pig. You haven't lived in Israel in years. Do you know that a few years ago he forced a French kiss on a woman soldier, hardly more than a teenager?? But he was defended by Shulamit Aloni, a self-styled feminist. But Ramon is a "leftist" in Israeli terms, so Aloni's "leftism" trumped her feminism. Twenty years ago, I listened to a conversation by a Labor member of Knesset, now retired, who was complaining about Ramon. Eli Yishai shoots his mouth off as do many Israeli politicians, as you have noted. But compared to Ramon, Yishai is a tsadiq. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 I forgot to point out that even the AIPAC delegates to the meeting were Obama's pals from way back. I thank Kampeas for reporting that fact. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 This was a disgraceful performance by mainly self-appointed leaders. They show hutspah by calling themselves Jews, let alone leaders. Now, Obama made life easy for himself by only inviting those who already supported him, maybe the Orthodox Union was an exception but too intimidated to challenge his horrid anti-Israel policies. Among those invited were J Street, an anti-Israel outfit financed by George Soros who in fact collaborated with the Nazis during the Holocaust by his own admission. J Street is not a grass roots group, nor really Jewish. Americans for Peace Now is also an anti-Israel group which is tightly connected to the Washington Establishment. One of its directors was Sandy Berger, the disgraced national security advisor for Pres. Clinton. The other groups, which may be more representative [but not good representatives], should not have agreed to come in the company of J Street and Americans for Peace Now, which are non-representative and basically Washington Establishment bodies. Meanwhile, the ZOA and Young Israel groups were excluded. Obviously, Obama likes yes-men and doesn't want to hear criticism, however merited. Kampeas' description of the meeting reminds me of how Rabbi Stephen Wise toadied to Franklin Roosevelt during world war II while FDR did nothing to prevent or save Jews from the Holocaust. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Biden & Obama are close to Britain which refused to bomb the death camps although their bombers flew nearby. FDR did little to help the Jews too. What does Biden say about that? 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 A number of factual errors appear in Shapira's discourse. 1- there never was a "palestinian nation" or "palestinian people" in all history. The PLO does not claim that "palestinians" are a separate or distinct people or nation. Rather, the PLO claims in its charter [Article One] that "the palestinian people is part of the Arab nation" and the "Palestine is part of the Great Arab Fatherland [watan]." The "palestinian people" notion is a psychological warfare invention meant to undermine Israel in world public opinion. At the time of Israel's War of Independence, the Palestinian Arabs claimed that the country was part of Syria and they wanted to join that state. Arab spokesmen at the 1946 Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry testified that there was no "Palestine" in history, it was all Syria. 2-- Giv`at Shaul was always a Jewish neighborhood. Much of Deir Yassin was located where Har Nof is now. 3- Arab irregular and regular troops [including Iraqis] had made the village into a strongpoint in the siege of Jerusalem, shooting from Deir Yassin onto presumed Jewish traffic on the road below. 4-- There was no massacre there. However, civilians were killed [about 110, not the usual figure of 250] because they were in houses together with Arab troops and died in the battle when houses used as firing positions were attacked. The historian Uri Milstein has written a recent book on what happened at Deir Yassin [in Hebrew]. You could also read Menahem Begin's account of what happened in his book The Revolt. The story of a Deir Yassin massacre/atrocity is a smear job and blood libel against Israel. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 nowadays "human rights" is just another pretense for making propaganda. So "palestinian human rights center" ought to be "palestinian propaganda center" that --as someone observed above-- does not acknowledge the human rights of Jews. This "human rights" outfit should not be believed because of its propagandistic nature. Isn't the JTA aware of Pallywood? Of the intense propaganda activity of both Hamas and Fatah? The Israeli army listed the fatalities in Gaza by NAME. They were overwhelmingly male terrorists. By the way, the Hamas-run police force are also armed men and are part of the Hamas' forces, often taking part in terrorist attacks, just as the palestinian authority police [Fatah] do. miriam ought to read the Hamas Charter and note its Nazi-like character. It openly advocates the genocide of Jews, particularly in Article 7. by the way, mimi, the population in Gaza gets plenty of food delivered regularly. They are not starving unless the Hamas appropriates the food for its own purposes. Furhtermore, mimi, what about the human rights of Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier being held by Hamas which is not allowing the Red Cross access to him. This is a violation of internatrional law. Why don't you take that up with all your friends who are so concerned about "international law" when it serves the Hamas?? Or can be falsel y interpreted to serve the Hamas. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 this Anderson deserves no sympathy. He consciously sides with making it easier for Arab terrorists to murder Jews. These ISM characters and some local Arabs regularly riot to try to prevent building of the security fence near this location. Friday afternoon is their usual time for rioting. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 ZOA is right. Ackerman's claims were ignorant at best. Why doesn't he complain to the Obama White House about their collaboration in the upcoming Durban II anti-Jewish hate fest?? 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00 Heilman divides Jerusalem's Jewish population into Orthodox and secular. However, the National Religious Jews mainly voted for Barkat who was supported by their leadership. We here draw different distinctions than Heilman does. Orthodox should mean both Haredi [like Meir Porush] but also National Religious. 2012-02-09T;22:54:00-05:00